Dufour and Voutilainen...

May 23, 2009,09:08 AM
 

It’s the answer to the question that no-one should ask, but since a few have asked, here (for what it’s worth) are some strictly personal observations upon the Philippe Dufour ‘Simplicity’ (“PD”) alongside the Kari Voutilainen ‘Observatoire’ (“KV”).

 

 

 

Both watches are made by AHCI members; both are simple time-only watches; increasingly frequently, both are mentioned in the same dialogue. Why? Apologies in advance for the lack of academic rigour in the comments and for the quality of the photos, which are really intended for illustrative purposes only.

 

 

 

The cases.

 

It is perhaps unfair to be comparing cases in two different metals: in these examples the PD is platinum whilst the KV is white gold. The platinum case is of course heavier (all other things being equal), notionally harder (more resistant to swirls, dings etc?) and ‘brighter’, whilst the WG might be thought to be a little ‘duller’ but ‘warmer’. The PD appears to be available only in noble metals; the KV has recently been manufactured in stainless steel and titanium also.

 

 

The 37mm case on the PD is effectively segregated into three sections. The mid-section is precisely the same width as the lugs at the point where they join the case, and the top and bottom sections (thinner than the centre) are the same depth as each other, giving the watch a symmetrical side profile. Sapphire to sapphire is 9mm.The upper section rolls 3mm in from the edge of the case, the lower section a fraction more, and each – without any joins, seams, or markings - merges seamlessly with the sapphires.

 

 

 

 

The 38mm KV case is also segregated into three sections where the centre section is wider than the top section which in turn is wider than the bottom section. Additionally, the lugs are joined to the lower portion of the centre section, so that the watch sits higher off the wrist than it might if they met the case at a centre point. Sapphire to sapphire is 11mm. The upper bezel of the KV is only 2mm wide at the rim and has a more angular, upright form than the PD, offering up more of the dial. The stepped backplate is held in place with 6 custom-shaped screws. It also carries the signature and hallmarking of the watch, together with an engraved statement of the Limited Edition status of the watch (just how LE has yet to be determined; as other owners have advised, the likely final number would now seem to be more than forty, less than forty-nine)

 

The crowns.

 

The slightly domed and unsigned crown of the PD is 6mm in diameter and sits 2.5mm off the case; the flatter-topped unsigned KV crown is perhaps .5mm larger on each dimension. Each has a wonderfully affirmative physical ‘click’ when rotated – you can ‘feel’ the wind, in the same way that you can ‘feel’ the gearchange in a well-sorted sportscar. Interestingly and counter-intuitively, the audible ‘click’ of the PD is a lower pitch than the KV, despite the movement being housed in a narrower case: a function of the resonating characteristics of the respective case metals, perhaps?

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is a fair amount of ‘recoil’ on the KV crown which requires approximately 29 turns for a full wind. It is an easy wind for the first dozen or so turns but then offers a healthy resistance. The PD requires nearly 40 turns for full wind: there is no ‘recoil’ and resistance increases only in the last two or three turns.

 

 

The lugs.

 

The lugs of the KV are fast becoming one of the signature touches to Mr Voutilainen’s  watches: a shape somewhere between teardrop and ‘cornes de vache’. They are pure whimsy: achingly beautiful and a very clever curvilinear counterpoint to the otherwise almost angular, precise proportions of the case and crown. In a watch which is otherwise quite modern in proportion and design they are an honourable and respectful nod to tradition. Famously, though, the most ‘bespoke’ of the Observatoire series (that commissioned by Felipe Jordao) was built with straight lugs: it works equally as well (some would doubtless think better) in that iteration.

 

 

 

 

The lugs of the Simplicity are of a more prosaic design: gently arched, nicely tapered, in good proportion to the case and seamlessly integrated. No more and no less than their function requires them to be.

 

 

 

The dials.

 

As mentioned, the case of the KV offers up more of the dial than the PD – a visible diameter of 33.5mm, as opposed to 30mm, despite the case sizes being only a fraction over 1mm difference in diameter. Each is available in a range of materials and colours (in the case of the Observatoire, seemingly as many as there are watches) and each is outsourced.

 

At the outer edge PD opts for a classic ‘railway track’ (this is brought inboard a little on the 34mm version) whilst KV utilises a narrow band featuring dot markers for the seconds (in this case, with applied arrowheads at 6 and 12 – dots are an option). The flat surfaces of the main PD dial and the sunken subdial have a minute grainy texture which gives the dials their sheen and the wave pattern radial guilloche in the centre of the dial is expertly executed: quite hypnotic.

 

 

 

 

KV marks the transition from numerals band to centre dial and subdial with engraving and textural differences, in this case with guilloche on the inner and outer sections of the main dial and on the subdial. Again, the available variations and designs are numerous: the dials may feature one, two or three guilloche elements in any combination – or none at all.

 

 

 

 

 

The hands.

 

 

The hands of the PD are ‘dauphine’ style, very sharply defined and in good proportion to the watch overall. The hour hand finishes precisely at the edge of the inner dial ring; the minute hand precisely at the outer edge of the railway track. The ‘elongated leaf’ shape of the second hand with its plumb-bob tail finishes at the very edge of the seconds track and is an effective coupling with the larger hands.

 

 

 

 

The hands of the KV, of course, have become another signature touch. Not surprisingly, this exaggerated Breguet design is also described as ‘observatory style’ and they are very distinctive in this modern interpretation. The minute hand finishes right above the minute indices and the hour hand, although overshooting the inner dial track, finishes precisely beneath the numerals. The point of the tapering second hand finishes precisely over the second indices at the edge of the outer subdial track whilst the ring on the tail of the (straight!) second hand extends out to the inner edge of the guilloched portion of the subdial. In this case, the hands are the default combination of white gold with blue gold rings and centres, but Mr Voutilainen has been prepared to supply the standard hands in different colours and has also consented to make ‘sword’ style hands (the Felipe Jordao model again) and blued steel ‘leaf’ hands.

 

 

[photo of overlaid hand options courtesy KV]

 

The numerals/indices.

 

KV offers applied numerals in different metals, in Arabic or Roman, and oriented to specification, i.e. vertically aligned, radially distributed, with or without so-called ‘radial flip’. Presumably, a version without numerals is feasible. The fonts are ‘sans serif’ and suitably modern.

 

The dial of the PD features vertically oriented Arabics at 3, 9 and 12 in case colour interspersed with like-coloured beveled spearhead indices for the other hour markers. In a nice touch, the spearhead indices for 5 and 7 are not truncated to accommodate the subdial – they are manufactured to the same shape as the others, but smaller. The font used for the numerals is very similar to that used on the KV (and many other watches for that matter – have a look at the JLC M.U.T. for example).

 

Because the KV uses more numerals around the dial, and uses numerals, not markers, in the sub-seconds dial, it declares its purpose more deliberately than the PD which, by resort to indices as substitute for numerals, subjugates function more to form. This is a question of degree, however; with either watch you can readily tell the time and both acquit the function with ample style.

 

 

The movements.

 

 

 

 

As is well known, the movement design of the PD is proprietary; whilst some commentators have noted its similarity to a JLC calibre, it has also been said that there are just so many ways a time-only movement might sensibly be configured. The KV on the other hand houses a re-worked Peseux 260 movement designed for Observatory trials. Each of these watches is heralded not so much for the design of its movement but, rather, the exacting level of finish. These photos do not begin to impart a sense of that quality. There have been other photographs before now, and there will be many others to come, which explore in microscopic detail the precision of the anglage, perlage, black polish, engraving and so on. For that reason, these comments will be limited to a few personal impressions only.

 

 

 

 

The PD withstands scrutiny even at extreme magnification: it is difficult, if not impossible, to detect a flaw or shortcoming. The concave and convex curves of the bridges are pure liquid. How is it possible to tighten those minute screws without leaving the faintest trace of the screwdriver? Even the individual brush-swirls on the Cotes de Genève stripes – a fraction of the width of a human hair - seem to be parallel. The two curved plates bearing the maker’s name and model number have been inserted into the bridges with zero ‘tolerance’, and the engraving of the name and model number (a serif font, for the most part) is beautifully executed. Again, the number in the series is not detailed on the plate: there were to be 200 pieces, however.

 

 

 

 

The focal point of the KV is that glorious balance-wheel. Just to look at it is to know that the watch is a purebred; one which has been regulated to the ‘nth’ degree by a master.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps because of all of the detailing on the retaining bezel, the exposure of the barrel wheel and the fractionally deeper case, or perhaps because of the absence of a ‘nameplate’ or other flourish such as found on the PD, the KV seems more purposeful than the PD. It is also noteworthy that the gap between movement and case is measurable: perhaps, though, that is a practical result of the use of thinner bezels, allowing greater visibility of movement and dial. Again, however, it is mind-boggling to think that micro-engineering to such small tolerances, and finishing to such minute detail, has been achieved by hand.

 

 

 

 

 

Accuracy is a matter best left for others to comment upon – those with a sufficient understanding of these things to comment meaningfully. The KV, though, stands by its pedigree: the watch may be tested at the Besancon Observatory (a valuable service arranged by its creator) so that the performance of the piece is beyond question;

 

 

 

The straps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Both are alligator, both are slightly padded, lined and well made. The PD is 19mm at the (straight) lug end tapering to 16mm at the buckle; the KV (curved at the lugs) is 20/16mm. Some of the earlier PD straps were apparently full grain alligator top and bottom; this one is lined underneath. Incidentally, KV delivers an Observatoire with three straps and, as can be seen, some straps are fitted with ‘quick-change’ springbars.

 

The buckles.

 

 

 

 

 

The PD tang buckle is high polish white gold, with a solid tang and a raised section to receive the tang. It is fitted with a springbar. It is not signed but it is distinctive.

 

 

 

 

The KV, by contrast, is a signed brushed steel butterfly deployant with a sprung double catch and threaded pins. It unquestionably feels more secure than a tang buckle, but one can’t help think that it would have been preferable if it were a little less bulky (the clasp alone, when closed, stands nearly 10mm off the wrist) and an option in white gold.

 

The ‘feel’.

 

It’s a very personal thing. For one who habitually wears watches at 40mm+, the PD can feel a little small on the wrist when first strapped back on. That feeling passes after time. The KV doesn’t suffer from that effect at all, probably because of its more substantial case, more open dial and more ‘present’ lugs.

 

The PD is ‘stealthy’, the KV less so (the lugs and hands are often noticed and commented upon), but both are magnetic, even to the uninformed observer.

 

Rightly or wrongly, the PD feels less robust/more fragile. Perhaps it’s a subconscious insecurity which flows from having such a precious thing hanging on a tang and a springbar, but there you have it. The upshot, though, is that the KV is worn more readily and more frequently. Both are easily worn at any time; with jeans and loafers, with business suit or with formal dress. Given its modernity and size, however, the KV feels more natural at the casual end of that spectrum and the PD, because of its classic – errrrr, simplicity - feels more natural when at the formal end of the spectrum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The experience.

 

Each of these watches is a thing of beauty. Each is ‘haute de gamme’ in the world of Independent manufacture. If one were to attempt to relate one to the other by reference to external markers, then it might be considered that, to this point, one of them has rightly been the high water mark of artisanship to which all others have aspired, whilst the other has emerged to claim a rightful place on that same podium. In that respect KV would be to PD what Picasso is to Rembrandt; what Usain Bolt is to Jesse Owens; what Koeniggggssssseeegggggg is to Ferrari; what Stag's Leap is to Ch. Latour; what Gehry is to Lloyd Wright.  Oops; starting to wax a bit lyrical here – apologies. You get the drift. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The conclusion, though, is easy to reach; there is no first amongst equals.

 

 

If you are still here – thanks for your interest.

 

 

Cheers,

pplater.

 

 

 

This message has been edited by AnthonyTsai on 2009-05-23 09:47:23 This message has been edited by SJX on 2009-05-29 00:26:10


More posts: DufourVoutilainen

  login to reply

Comments: view entire thread

 

That's a Hell of a Post, pplater

 
 By: amanico : May 23rd, 2009-10:31
Comparing these 2 pure monsters of horology is just painful for the reader who dreams about these pieces ( and I include myself in this long list ) But suffering may be good, and here is a very nice example. I must confess a light weakness for the KV. The... 

Incredible post

 
 By: Mostel : May 23rd, 2009-10:41
Thanks so much pplater. My layman thoughts: I will always regard Dufour as The One. His place in history is most relevant. He is The One who made Kari 'possible'. (Certainly not in terms of talent. But before Dufour, there was no independent worth mention... 

Terrific 1000th post, just terrific!

 
 By: MarcB : May 23rd, 2009-10:43
Thank you for your wonderful "compare and contrast": no first among equals indeed. Your final picture (of the PD) is quite amazing: luminous, radiant, the lighting gives the dial a look akin to that of mother of pearl. Congratulations on the wonderful wat... 

Thanks a lot pplater !

 
 By: foversta : May 23rd, 2009-12:21
I must confess I prefer the Observatoire. Because in Kari's watch there is something classic with a touch of originality (the case, the lugs, the hands, the balance bridge etc...) I don't find in the Simplicity. The Simplicity is of course impressive but ...  

thanx

 
 By: monochrome : May 27th, 2009-12:52
Thanx for the beautifull report pplatter! @ Fr.Xavier... fully agree with you. The Voulianen has something more playful in it's design, which i really like.

Amazing post and comparison

 
 By: 1440 : May 23rd, 2009-14:09
If I had to choose between the two, it would be a very difficult decision indeed. You are fortunate to have both, and we certainly appreciate the time and effort that went into the comparison of these two incredible pieces. I tend to agree with Mostel abo... 

Fantastic comparison PPlater!! FWIW, I much prefer the KV!

 
 By: Craig LA : May 23rd, 2009-15:00
Now we need a comparison of the minute repeaters made by PD and KV . . . That would be very interesting. Craig

Have just read...

 
 By: Rob : May 23rd, 2009-15:31
a future REFERENCE standard report. Incredible writeup pplater!!! This rightfully belongs in the archives of premier comparison reviews IMHO. Thanks for sharing!!

First off, congrats on your 1000th post!!

 
 By: AnthonyTsai : May 23rd, 2009-16:04
And secondly, great comparison review of the Simplicity and Observatoire! Since PD and KV watches are known primarily for their movement finishing, has anyone asked either of them for a custom watch with NO dial? Is the movement finished as well on the di... 

Wow! Fantastic comparison and reference

 
 By: Gary G : May 23rd, 2009-16:10
pplater, you have done a wonderful job of documenting the strengths, similarities, and differences of these two works from today's masters. I particularly appreciated your section on "the experience" -- your article would have been superb even without it,... 

Simply wonderful article and will be read by many in future :-)

 
 By: CL : May 23rd, 2009-18:30
Thank you very much Kevin for such wonderful treat. They both are marvelous pieces and I love them both. Form your pictures, Observatoire seems a lot bigger than the Simplicity, that will be the only concern I have for my small wrist. Hopefully the downwa... 

Thanks

 
 By: Quan : May 23rd, 2009-20:10
for such detail comparison post, this will keep lots of our WISdom alive and continue to dream to get either one.

Great comparo write-up PP.

 
 By: ArthurSG : May 23rd, 2009-20:52
It has contributed much to my ongoing education and more so growing interests in Independents. From an aesthetics POV, "static" shots of both tend to favor the KV but on wrist shots, the PD seems to come out better for me. Thank you again for the time and... 

A brilliant post Kevin

 
 By: SJX : May 23rd, 2009-20:55
Thank you for the comparison. Now how about a comparison between the KV and the Sinn? - SJX

Thanks for the excellent post, Pplater!

 
 By: dxboon : May 23rd, 2009-21:58
Congrats on your 1000th post also. Is it time to change your avatar from a Novitiate to a Superior? I think you have moved well beyond the level of novice in the world of horology. I learned a great deal from your article, and found the pictures to be ver... 

Congratulations from me too…

 
 By: AndrewD : May 23rd, 2009-23:10
That’s a brilliant review and comparison of these two iconic pieces of haute horlogerie. It’s also a fitting contribution for your 1000 th post. I thought I knew these two watches fairly thoroughly from what has been written of them in the past, but you b... 

Thank you for a marvellous report................

 
 By: Topcat30093 : May 24th, 2009-00:21
I have throughly enjoyed reading this beautifully written article. It would be well deserved that hopefully it will be placed into the reference section for all to see and read. I truly admire both these great master watchmakers and their work. I hope tha... 

A tremendious hands on comparison...

 
 By: DonCorson : May 24th, 2009-02:01
Thanks pplater for a great report. I am very divided on these two "equals". I prefer the Voutilainen dial side with its more modern design, but the Dufour movement side with the perfection of its proportions. Just can't decide... Don

Phenomenal 1000th. Post!

 
 By: fernando : May 24th, 2009-07:01
What a showdown between two living legends! Enjoyed it thoroughly,many thanks for sharing. Fernando

We are all here, pplater, attentive and at the edge of our seats . . .

 
 By: Dr No : May 24th, 2009-11:51
. . . thank you kindly, sir. Most cordially, Art

Wonderful head to head review!

 
 By: Allen : May 24th, 2009-11:52
After looking at every aspect of these two watches, the most relevant seems to be the emotional experience. It would be hard to pick one over the other each morning. I ordered my Simplicity a year before I even heard of Kari for the first time and I'm sti... 

A fantastic post

 
 By: tahoeblue : May 24th, 2009-17:28
Does not get much better than that either in posts or watches! Many thanks.

Thanks pplater

 
 By: JerryW : May 24th, 2009-17:52
What a treat to see both of these beauties side by side, a rare occurance. This was a great opportuinty for all of us to learn so much about two amazing watches. If AT would allow a top ten posts of the year list I would vote for this one to be included. ... 

Wonderful Watches, Matched With a Wonderful Post...

 
 By: patrick_y : May 25th, 2009-01:00
A fantastic post. I loved every single chapter; with my favorites being the ones about the movements and ironically the crowns. And I especially enjoyed your analogies between Dufour and Voutilainen. Please feel free to include a post about the packaging ... 

What a way to post your 1000th posting. A home run all the way.

 
 By: Sleng : May 25th, 2009-02:31
Your comparison has definitely open another side of view of PD and I must agree that both these 2 gems are legends in the making. However, I still have the slight weakness for KV's Observatoire over PD's Simplicity. Just my very personal view. Can't wait ... 

Grandest 1000th post ever

 
 By: Ares501 - Mr Green : May 25th, 2009-02:36
Finally I found answer to the eternal question and all the sub-questions regarding KV & PD Thank you for this marvel Sincerely Damian

Wonder what you plan to feature in your 10,000th post...

 
 By: samwan : May 25th, 2009-04:31
I will wait with great enthusiasm pplater Thank you for the fantastic write-up and comparison. Sam

What a stunning post!

 
 By: TimAbz : May 25th, 2009-07:26
Great job, pplater. Super comparison, and very comprehensive. Thanks for posting this. Personally prefer the looks of the Kari - unmistakable style. Tim

Thanks for this most brilliant and insightful comparison review

 
 By: schen : May 25th, 2009-07:35
of the two wonders. A great post and a great service to this community. A best read for me on this long weekend. I'm sure I among many others will read it again many times in future.

Wonderful post and great comparative analysis.

 
 By: Mel : May 25th, 2009-11:35
No technical gobbley-gook, just pure emotional analysis. While both watches are superb, I prefer the PD. Great job and thanks.

Honesty....

 
 By: MTF : May 25th, 2009-20:47
pplater, Thank you for taking the time to craft your review. I have never commented on either watch before but your observations and commentary has pushed me into making a CHOICE in public (gasp faint gulp): Kari Voutilainen Why? Because it is an 'honest'... 

WOOHOO!!!...

 
 By: pplater : May 25th, 2009-22:21
[First, a quick word of thanks to all who have responded to this post thus far. Your comments have been kind and a little humbling. Many of the comments and questions have received a response by PM but, MTF, yours was so galvanising (in a genuinely positi... 

Sometimes its about people.....

 
 By: MTF : May 26th, 2009-09:35
pplater, I could...nay...should...take the easy route and simply state that it's a visceral feeling. From a PuristS viewpoint, that may prove to be the ultimately correct answer; seeking perfection in an imperfect world, my perfection is my perception. Or... 

A great review and thanks for undertaking it - loved the read

 
 By: 219 : May 26th, 2009-02:09
Are you sure you would not compare Ch. Latour with Screaming Eagle? If I had to choose, it would be the KV for the love of the balance wheel and the more robust form. The pedigree movement would always win over the proprietary finished piece. Loved the re... 

I would think KV's is a "more" honest watch

 
 By: ling5hk : May 26th, 2009-16:08
MTF, Today, it is not easy to find an "honest watch" with the maker's genuine philosophy in horology, quality of its execution and its price as a whole package. Regards Ling

This is the first time that I have felt that reading is BETTER than owning

 
 By: bernard cheong : May 26th, 2009-01:27
I think you have just managed to counter GLOBAL recession and made reading a fine, superb post...with details and pictures. Certainly from my perspective of having very close relations with these objects, I sincerely feel that just reading your presentati... 

Very interesting read, thanks a lot for sharing this info

 
 By: Geo : May 26th, 2009-03:04
with us. These watches, it would be hard for me to choose, are so incredible. Geo

Thank you sir, for this wonderful report.

 
 By: tony p : May 26th, 2009-20:46
It stands on its own merits as a complete entity - an enlightening personal view of two of the leading watches of today. I would nevertheless like to add my own humble perspective. The thing which sets watches such as these apart from any time-only piece ... 

Well articulated Tony

 
 By: Mostel : May 27th, 2009-20:25
I agree with everything you said.

Beautifully worded, Tony [nt]

 
 By: Topcat30093 : May 28th, 2009-01:45
No message body

What being high-level WIS is all about!

 
 By: Larry Seiden : May 27th, 2009-17:26
Tremendous job, well written and I love the comparison. Of course, you are in a world, that many of us aspire to, but few reach. Larry

One (very small) potential correction?

 
 By: Gary G : May 28th, 2009-21:05
I can't see your photo of the KV deployant closely enough to confirm, but my buckle (of identical design) is clearly stamped "750" indicating that it is gold, not SS. Any chance you can check yours again? Thanks, Gary

Corrigendum and apologia...

 
 By: pplater : June 3rd, 2009-03:35
Thank you Gary; although it did not seem possible to examine the watch more minutely than had already occurred, on further inspection you are (of course) entirely correct. The embarrassment of having made the mistake in the first place is equalled only by... 

I had to look twice myself...

 
 By: Gary G : June 3rd, 2009-15:12
When I read your initial post, I took out my watch and began to inspect the clasp, looking for hallmarks in the "usual" places near the ends. It was only when I held the watch in a certain light that the markings became visible! As you know, in most photo... 

I'm a big fan of your posts, pplater... ;-))

 
 By: Emmanuel H : June 3rd, 2009-14:34
I'm truly impressed by these two watches which are the nicest examples of the traditional and independent Haute Horlogerie . If I had to choose between the two, I would take the KV. Thanks for sharing pplater, Emmanuel

price question

 
 By: collector : June 30th, 2009-11:18
hi all, does anybody know how much the watches of Dufour and Voutilainen cost. thanks

See your PM (nt)

 
 By: Gary G : June 30th, 2009-11:59
nt