Breguet

La Tradition going train help please...
Jul 16 2008,20:19 PM

Dear All,

I am hoping that the budding watchmakers out there can help me understand the layout of the La Tradition movement a little more clearly.

In a traditional going train the centre wheel is directly geared to the mainspring barrel and then down the line via the third and fourth wheels to the escapement.

In the La Tradition there is some sort of intermediate wheel (labeled ??? in the image below) between the teeth of the barrel rim and the large centre wheel.

Can anyone tell me what this wheel is called and why it is necessary? It may just be a practical way of directing energy from the mainspring barrel to the center wheel when space is tight. I can’t tell if it changes the gearing ratio of the centre wheel. Did A.-L. Breguet use this design?

Any insight you could provide would be interesting.

Thanks

Andrew

Respond to this post | 

??? isn't really a train wheel
Jul 17 2008,06:55 AM

It appears to be just a transfer wheel.  Unlike the rest of the wheels in the train, it has a single layer, not a wheel and pinion, so it can't change nature (from torque to speed) of the force.  It appears to me to be a way to make the layout work, just a hack since otherwise the gears couldn't get into the right ratios AND look right.
a

Respond to this post | 

i would say same
Jul 17 2008,14:43 PM

as theirs no reduction going on, its just a direct gear... maybe since they didnt have enough room..

love the watch tho, you have the best setup.

manual wind=my favorite
yellow gold=the only way to go for a tradition!

Respond to this post | 

That was my conclusion too…
Jul 17 2008,15:38 PM

Thanks Riley

 

Yes, I agree that the main function of this wheel seems to be to maintain the architecture of the going train. It will be interesting to find out if this is unique to the La Tradition or a solution that A.-L. Breguet himself employed.

 

I have just received a copy of George Daniel’s “The Art of Breguet”. Quite densely packed with information, but I may be a bit more knowledgeable when I have digested more of it.

 

Thanks also for you kind comments about the La Tradition. I did hesitate for a period with the yellow gold as I tend to buy more subdued watches in white metals, but it perfectly reflects the heritage of Breguet.

 

Your Freak and 103.09 use a similar colour palette, so I see you have discovered the attraction of these colours for the right watch as well.

Regards

Andrew

Respond to this post | 

In the museum
Jul 17 2008,16:33 PM

The original Souscription in the Breguet museum does not have a wheel like this:


It appears to solve the problem with a combination of size (the barrel is larger, but the watch is larger, allowing a larger mechanical advantage with each wheel), and Escapement.  Using a cylinder drops out the pallet fork, and allows you to put the 4th wheel under the balance entirely, gaining some space.
a
[edited to include a smaller pic, the original is HUGE] This message has been edited by aaronm on 2008-07-17 16:34:18

Respond to this post | 

Nice to see the patriarch…
Jul 17 2008,20:41 PM

Hi Aaron,

 

Your picture shows the arrangement in the Souscription watch perfectly.  Form follows function and all that.  I hope to see the Paris museum in person one day soon.

 

I should go and look up the answer in Daniel’s book, but there appears to be two winding points, one in the centre of the barrel and one to the left of the barrel. Do you know what this arrangement is for?

 

Thanks

 

Andrew

Respond to this post | 

Center is winding
Jul 17 2008,21:15 PM

the one at 10:30ish is for setting, I think.  There has to be some way to set it, and the minute pinion isn't squared-off to allow direct setting.
a

Respond to this post | 

So, on the La Tradition …
Jul 17 2008,22:24 PM

Thanks Aaron, that makes sense.

 

So on our La Tradition’s the hand setting is accomplished by the pinion and wheel at approx. 1pm on the watch? Sorry, I don’t know the correct name for this.

 

I am actually wearing the watch at my desk at the moment, but I am running a long term accuracy experiment and don’t want to pull the crown to see what it does!  I will report on this at the end of the month.

 

Regards

 

Andrew

Respond to this post | 

yup
Jul 18 2008,07:19 AM

I  just pulled the crown out, and there is some keyless work on the underside, under that long thin bridge, that moved.  On setting the hands, that wheel at 1 o'clock turns.
a

Respond to this post | 

A transfer wheel...
Jul 17 2008,15:30 PM

Thanks Aaron,

 

It’s a quirk of my nature that I like things to have ‘labels’.  So, I am happy to call this the “transfer wheel” as it seems to describe its function. Although just a “hack” as you say, it is actually quite a nice design feature, tucked away under the centre wheel and its large bridge.

 

I really appreciate your insight.

 

Thanks again.

 

Andrew

Respond to this post | 

Thank you all for this superb thread.
Jul 18 2008,15:16 PM

Respond to this post | 

Very Zen …
Jul 20 2008,05:51 AM

Thanks BCL

 

For a straightforward time-only watch with power reserve, there is a lot to contemplate with the La Tradition.

 

Pleased you found the discussion interesting.

 

Kind regards

 

Andrew

Respond to this post |